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bayroan ( 44)
Forum legend
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 5202
United Kingdom
Edinburgh
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davedarlo (12)
Forum legend
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 537
United Kingdom
Darlington
| | Posted: Sun 10 Aug 2008 17:54 | |
I can,t believe people don,t think we didn,t come from the darkest reaches of the universe, may the force be with us
Assumption is the mother of all fcuk ups |
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greeneyes ( 361)
Forum legend
Gold Member
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 6627
United Kingdom
Coventry
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MarkS (12)
Forum legend
Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 2731
United Kingdom
Gloucestershire
| | Posted: Sun 10 Aug 2008 18:44 | |
Bay, you dont know the half of it. Visit Fundies Say the Darndest things (www.fstdt.com). Then visit Bad Science (www.badscience.net), the willingness of people to believe bs seems to be almost limitless. You'll find for instance lots of "paranormal" ghosties and ghoulies programmes on tv and rather a lot of "mediums" visiting your town/village hall charging the gullible for info about their dearly departed or future partners.
You thought there was a mountain of proof for evolution. Well there is but most people don't know the details and have no arguments when Intelligent Designists (secret Creationists) say things like "there are no transitional fossils" or start talking about irreducible complexity. Then they'll start talking about all the prophecies in the bibles that have been fulfiled....it's endless.
Dont ever make the mistake of thinking we live in a rational, secular world.
Free Download of new album - MarkIII
http://www.rickymancini.co.uk/mp3/AlbumIII.zip
MarkS
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bayroan (44)
Forum legend
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 5202
United Kingdom
Edinburgh
| | Posted: Sun 10 Aug 2008 19:45 | |
I am not going to look at those sites, i will only get annoyed at peoples stupidity!
I study evolutionary biology and dont understand some of those random phrases you just came out with 
I had an 'discussion' with the security gaurd at work the other day about evolution. I dont like arguments and in a way i think having a belief is a good thing, so basically i said why its blindingly obvious that evolution occurs and he could take my info or leave it.
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DanC (73)
Forum legend
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 6467
United Kingdom
Yorkshire
| | Posted: Sun 10 Aug 2008 20:08 | |
There's nothing like a well reasoned argument Bay!
Oh BTW life started magically when an intergalactic bunny blew fairy dust into a pond of sludge some 3 and 1/2 billion years ago.
Is as good an answer as you can get. Also there is always mountains of proof for any theory until a better answer comes along!
***************************************************************************
Reflections on Time EntropiKs new album available on all major download sites NOW
www.entropik.co.uk
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Fraser_S ()
True muso
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 314
United Kingdom
Yorkshire
| | Posted: Sun 10 Aug 2008 22:22 | |
Things that make leaps are too quick to get fossilized! 
Hegel may have been on to something - although his triad might result in over simplification in people's minds; but certainly synthesis from forces - whether it be consciousness, saturn or frogs, eh? |
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Fraser_S ()
True muso
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 314
United Kingdom
Yorkshire
| | Posted: Mon 11 Aug 2008 9:29 | |
Hmm, having never read Hegel, I thought that 'thesis, antithesis and synthesis' must be an over-simplification - no-one can be that blunt; and, after a bit of looking about, it does turn out that that triad is just a bit of a myth - associated with him for various reasons.
Ok, I'm done talkin' to myself. |
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joe-tele (20)
Forum legend
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 1541
United Kingdom
Gloucester, land of cameltoe jogging bottoms
| | Posted: Mon 11 Aug 2008 10:33 | |
I still can't believe that some of the fairly rational, intelligent people I know still believe in religion. Despite the fact that it has been eternally proven as a form of control created by 'leaders' for their gullible masses.
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DanC (73)
Forum legend
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 6467
United Kingdom
Yorkshire
| | Posted: Mon 11 Aug 2008 11:49 | |
I believe in religions because religions actually exist. Believing in god, is however, a different proposition.
***************************************************************************
Reflections on Time EntropiKs new album available on all major download sites NOW
www.entropik.co.uk
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MarkS (12)
Forum legend
Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 2731
United Kingdom
Gloucestershire
| | Posted: Mon 11 Aug 2008 11:50 | |
Well i don't think we should get into a religion bashing thing - there are lots of religious types who do sterling work all over the world, it's the rabid fundamentalists who lie cheat bully manipulate kill etc in the name of religion that i object to. Most theists are decent people.
Bay, Creationists like to claim that there are no examples of what they call "transitional fossils", say a fish 1/2 way evolved into a frog. Proponents of Intelligent Design like to claim that there are certain features in plants and animals which are complex and could not have come into existence from simpler features.
Argument is difficult with them because they start with a premise eg. the world was created in 6 days 6000 years ago, that they will defend any way they can, so everything is slanted towards that point of view. Not worth arguing with them usually.
Unfortunately some of these nutters are now able to get government money to start schools in this country. Young minds are easier to train if you put them in an environment where these attitudes are always present and their peers are encouraged to think the same way.
Free Download of new album - MarkIII
http://www.rickymancini.co.uk/mp3/AlbumIII.zip
MarkS
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Fraser_S ()
True muso
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 314
United Kingdom
Yorkshire
| | Posted: Mon 11 Aug 2008 13:02 | |
Yeah, it think Joe (and I'm not bashing him) may have stumbled onto one of the intolerant perspectives promoted by the common idea of evolution: that it finds it hard to recognise that the world has room for all beliefs and ideas, kinda thing. The ramifications, in thought, of evolutionary theory can get a bit silly, what with an emphasis on always 'progress - progress - progress'. That the world has produced the finest philosopher does not at the same time prevent a child being brought up in ignorance, so to speak; that there is Beethoven does not prevent a 3 bar chord song etc - room for all; and so it goes on.
A view that incorporates evolution, for me (beyond the labels of different schools of thought on the subject, perhaps), is that there are simply so many forces rubbing up against each other, resulting in other forces and so on, that manifestations are going to be as diverse as they are; in all things ranging from complex to simpler; from large to small - the brush strokes of forces and resulting forces. However, what all these forces do have in common is, because they are a force, the quality of 'pushing'; and so things are shaped by this pushing against other pushing; refinements are made; growths in certain areas; greater efficiency develops; devolving in others; outrageous 'evolutions' in certain areas; destructions in others etc - etc -etc. Everything's always moving - percheeeeeeewwww, heh. |
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MarkS (12)
Forum legend
Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 2731
United Kingdom
Gloucestershire
| | Posted: Mon 11 Aug 2008 13:19 | |
I think that's really just a flaw in the way some people percieve the process - biological evolution is not constantly "trying" to improve, life just tends to adapt in response to a given set of circumstances or conditions. Not that I'm any kind of expert in biology.
Free Download of new album - MarkIII
http://www.rickymancini.co.uk/mp3/AlbumIII.zip
MarkS
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joe-tele (20)
Forum legend
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 1541
United Kingdom
Gloucester, land of cameltoe jogging bottoms
| | Posted: Mon 11 Aug 2008 13:37 | |
CC was right.
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DanC (73)
Forum legend
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 6467
United Kingdom
Yorkshire
| | Posted: Mon 11 Aug 2008 14:10 | |
CC Right? CC just proves the theory of random mutations in a chaotic framework sometimes comes up with evolutionary dead ends!
***************************************************************************
Reflections on Time EntropiKs new album available on all major download sites NOW
www.entropik.co.uk
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joe-tele (20)
Forum legend
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 1541
United Kingdom
Gloucester, land of cameltoe jogging bottoms
| | Posted: Mon 11 Aug 2008 14:27 | |
Yeah but despite his bleating he did get the number on some people...
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rabs (48)
Forum legend
Gold Member
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 2592
United Kingdom
Lincolnshire
| | Posted: Mon 11 Aug 2008 14:32 | |
CC was a miracle gone completely wrong, one of those un explainable mishaps of nature. Some mothers do ave 'em.
Eclectic light orchestra |
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Elaine (24)
Forum legend
Gold Member
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 977
United Kingdom
Surrey woking
| | Posted: Mon 11 Aug 2008 15:00 | |
Sorry I know this is a bit off topic but touches on some of the comments, I think it is right to say that fundamentalism in any form is dangerous - my brother in law is a fundamentalist atheist far more dogmatic than many others I know who are not sure or sure what is their own belief but don't hold any issues about what others believe he shoves his beliefs far more vehemently down his kids throats than a right wing Christian preacher in the mid west of America but doesn't see the irony.
Belief and organised religions can be separated. Many people who follow a religion don't believe in Creationism and react with the same disbelief at those who do, the same as anyone else
Anyway it's just an observation
www.myspace.com/elainemcg |
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DanC (73)
Forum legend
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 6467
United Kingdom
Yorkshire
| | Posted: Mon 11 Aug 2008 15:21 | |
quite right.
***************************************************************************
Reflections on Time EntropiKs new album available on all major download sites NOW
www.entropik.co.uk
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Fraser_S ()
True muso
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 314
United Kingdom
Yorkshire
| | Posted: Mon 11 Aug 2008 16:55 | |
(Passes Batman the Bat-Handkerchief). Holy torrents of tears, Batman! There - there - there - there - there - there - there - there - Baaattmmaan!
Seriosuly though, I am devastated of course, that such an opinion of me exists in certain quarters.  |
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